Category: Interview Series

In our July 2021 edition of interview series, we have been fortunate to briefly speak with Richard Hundhausen about DevOps as a IT skills for leaders. He also shared views on up-skilling with certification courses and where the DevOps community heading.

Let’s read;

Q1. DevOps is one of the hottest buzzwords in the industry these days. Why do you think it is much more than a buzz?

Richard: I don’t. I think DevOps is the latest attempt to solve people/cultural problems via tools.

Q2. Is continuous integration a must?

Richard: It’s not. If teams swarm/mob, they will “integrate” continuously.

Q3.Please suggest top 3 DevOps skills IT leaders need for the next normal.

Richard:

1. How to enable/foster self-managing teams,
2. How to enable/foster the Scrum values (commitment, courage, focus, openness, and respect),
3. How to stop managing (in a traditional way) and start leading (by helping remove impediments, assisting in organisational change, Gemba walks, etc.).

Q4. What is your view on up-skilling with certification courses?

Richard: Learning is always important and organisations/leaders should foster a culture of learning. The need/desire for certification should be secondary to that, if at all.

Q5.What is the inspiration behind writing ‘Professional Scrum Development with Azure DevOps’?

Richard: Many teams and organistions still think that tools will solve their problems. They won’t. People solve problems. For those still thinking that the next shiny button, branching strategy, or automated test platform will help them arrive at DevOps, they are in for more of the same. My book dispels these myths while explaining how to break the cycle. (Hint: it’s about the people, not the process or tools).

Q6. Where do you think the DevOps community is heading in the next 5 years?

Richard: The community is moving at a fast pace right back to where it started, which is discouraging. It’s also why the message of Professional Scrum, as hard as it is to hear, is so important as it can be used to address the underlying impediments and conditions while introducing empiricism so that the people doing the work (not the managers or tools) can improve their own conditions.

There is no denial to the fact that ‘Change’ has become the need of hour in current times, be it individuals or organisations. In this edition of interview series, we feature Tom Mellor (CST, Agility Coach & Consultant) to share his experience and thoughts on recognising the need to change and essential attributes of Agile Leadership.

Let’s read;

Q1. How can an organisation recognise the need to change?

Tom:  This is a topic related to Organisational Behaviour and it has been studied and analysed ad nauseum.  A search for “organisation change” on Google Scholar results in excess of 5,500,000 returns. The first one returned to me is instructive: a pdf that is Peter Vaill’s June 2000 foreword to the book Facilitating Organization Change Lessons from Complexity Science by Edwin E. Olson and Glenda H. Eoyang. He writes: “This book is a kind of conceptual call to arms for thinking about organisation change. Quite properly it is full of specific “best practices” in complex adaptive systems that managers and consultants can use to do what the authors advocate. But even more importantly in my view, Olson and Eoyang introduce us to some new ‘best theories’ that are going to be shaping our thinking about human organisations for quite some time to come.” And, thus, the connection of org change and complexity was hatched. 
Complexity science and org change now go hand-in-hand.  We know that organizations have many of the attributes associated with complex social systems and complex biological systems. Those systems are rarely in a static state for very long, whether admitted by people or not. Dave Snowden has undertaken much research and study about these concepts and formulated his Cynefin Sense-making Framework around his work to be used by orgs and people for analysis and action. Modern organisational leadership that intends for a company to survive over the long term readily understands complexity. If they probe and respond appropriately to the catalysts driving change, they can sense what to do. They must not rely solely on prediction, but operate from hypothesis and experimentation. That is the essence of this recent writing by Snowden on org change.

Q2. According to your experience, why do people resist change? 

Tom:  People don’t resist change unless it is perceived as threatening or coercive. “What’s in it for me” and “what happens to me” are the 2 most poignant questions they have, understandably. If people sense that their leadership doesn’t actually support change, most of them won’t either. Benjamin Hooks, the American Civil Rights leader, said “If you are a leader and you turn around and see no one is following you, then you are just taking a walk.”  When you advocate, insist upon and lead change you better make sure people are following you.

Q3. Why do you call Agile and Scrum – The “Moneyball” of Software Development?

Tom: If you watch the movie or read the book by that title (I have done both) you will understand how Billy Beane, the General Manager of the Oakland A’s professional baseball club, was an impetus for major change in American professional baseball.  It was very meaningful to me since I was in professional baseball for 10 years and had met Beane when he was a player in the Oakland A’s organization.  

We shared similar experiences in trying to foment change in very traditional industries – him in organised baseball and me in a very large insurance company.  We were both seen as outrageous mavericks and revolutionaries by people in our organisations (and described by a host of other adjectives that I cannot mention here). 

I encourage anyone to read the book or watch the movie, even if they are not baseball fans.  This is my second favorite scene in the movie. Brad Pitt plays Billy Beane. My first favorite scene is too profane for most people. This is another.  Beane built off the work of statistician Bill James who had no direct experience in pro baseball, and I built off the work of 17 people who wrote the Manifesto for Agile Software Development.

Q4. How can one be a provider of solutions?

Tom: No one should be a provider of solutions – they should be catalysts for solutions. People should be providers of ideas, concepts, dreams, visions, and ideals. Solutions best come from those closest to the problem and closest to the work. I’ve seen literally millions and millions of dollars spent on “solution” experts brought in from the outside to “fix things”. They prescribe solutions, then they leave and nothing is fixed, and the company treasury is poorer for it.  Then, in a total act of insanity, they are brought back in again to fix the very things they actually messed up – for even more money!!  

If we ran our lives like that, we would be in institutions!  I won’t mention names, but many or most of us know of these consultancies. I’ve seen the same thing from so-called “agile coaches”, though I have also seen very good and courageous ones, too.  People inside the organizations are the greatest pool of help.  They solve problems every day. They are also often ignored in favor of “experts”.  It’s a damn shame, really.

Q.5 Do you believe that transformation starts with Agile leadership?

Tom: Harvard Business Review regularly has articles and case studies about organizational change and the various facets of it.  They had an excellent one titled 5 Behaviors of Leaders Who Embrace Change on May 18, 2018 by Edith Onderick-Harvey.  The five behaviors are:  1) Share a compelling, clear purpose; 2) Seek out what’s not working; 3) Promote calculated risk-taking and experimentation; 4) Look for boundary-spanning partnerships; and 5) Look ahead and see opportunities.

Recognizing the need for change isn’t really the problem.  The problem is the failure to acknowledge the need for change or to subsequently act effectively on that need.  If the organization is a “generative-learning” one, the need (desire??) for change will be apparent as part of its learning process. The catalyst for transformation always starts at the top. This in #1 in the HBR article: sharing a compelling, clear purpose (or vision, if you prefer.)  If you want to see this action, watch this video that I show in my classes: The Transformation of Hill Country Hospital. 

Q6. What are the seven essential attributes of Agile leadership?

Tom:  Wrong question! Well, that’s pretty blunt :). There is no such thing. What I mean is that there is “effective leadership”.  “Effective” is the appropriate descriptor. If you put “agile” or “Agile” in front, you immediately do two things.  First, you put a modifier that remains largely undefined and innocuous. People widely understand and appreciate what “effective” (and conversely, “ineffective”) means. “Agile” remains elusive, debated, and also, at its worst, bellicose. 

Companies are agile, not people. People’s behaviors can affect a company’s state of being agile, but it transcends behavior to include org structure, culture, and processes.  If we had to capitulate to using the term “agile leadership” (I prefer “modern era leadership” ahd I don’t capitalize the word “agile” because it is not a proper noun), then we might turn to Stephen Denning in his March 14, 2021 Forbes article: How New Leadership Succeeds In The Digital Age. 

In another Forbes article, The Three Ingredients of Leadership You Need, Denning offers the following graphic. He reveals no secrets that are not widely understood and appreciated. Smart leaders already do the things he describes, regardless of their industry.

Q7. Where do you see the Agile community heading towards?

Tom: It will inspect and adapt, anticipate and innovate, and it will move on in the name of continuous improvement.  Or, it will die.

Tom Mellor has a leadership, teaching, and coaching background in business and IT and he is a Certified Scrum Trainer. He serves as a Scrum practitioner, teacher, coach, helper, and mentor. He tries to help people and organisations be more agile, more effective and efficient, and learn how to quickly deliver quality products that satisfy users and customers.

As a 20+ year employee of a Fortune 50 US business, he introduced agility and Scrum into the company and helped incubate and grow agility there until leaving. He was involved in over 50 product development efforts as a Scrum Master and Team Member, and taught over 1,000 company people about agility and Scrum.