Interview with Sunil Goyal

You are not leading correctly, if no one is criticising you. In our July 2021 edition, we have interviewed Sunil Goyal, Dy.Chief Executive Officer of Sopra Steria India. We discussed his leadership style and how he deals with the criticism keeping the focus on goals and objectives of the organisation.

Let’s read;

Q1. How would you describe your leadership style?


Sunil: I would describe my leadership style as “Connected “. In all my years of experience, I have learnt a lot from being connected to people from within the organisation, my friends, my professional acquaintances, my college connections and even practical strangers at times.

When I say I have learnt a lot, I mean I have picked up from people’s experiences, their perspectives, perceptions & judgements. You know what I found most interesting? People thrive on interaction and conversations. My leadership style in a nutshell is to try to bring out the best in me and others by 3Cs – Connection, Conversation and Care.


Q2. Leadership comes up with lots of criticism as well. How do you respond to the criticism?

Sunil: Well, I try not to react, rather respond or pass. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don’t. Regardless of whether I agree or I disagree, I always acknowledge the criticism and try finding out the WHY behind it. I never doubt the intention. That’s the first step towards improvement. 

Truth be told, at the leadership position, we don’t have the luxury of receiving a lot of critical feedback because people mostly try to be pleasing and understandably so. Hence critical feedback is “extremely valuable” for me. 

I once read somewhere, “You are nothing but an opinion in someone’s mind” and critical feedback tells me what opinion do I hold and how my actions are perceived. It tells me what I need to do more and what I need to do less. 

I am very grateful for all the critics I have had. They are my coaches as they help me become better one way or the other.

Q3. Delegating responsibilities efficiently is one of the most common challenges faced by leadership and management. Please share 3 tips to delegate responsibilities efficiently as per your experiences.

Sunil: 

  1. Choose people wisely. Take your time to make them ready. Work with them, share your vision, objectives, critical success factors and limiting factors (if any). Prepare them well for success.
  2. Give people independence to think as well as execute. Be there as an advisor & anchor.
  3. Let people make mistakes. Let them learn this way. Do not be a helicopter manager 😊

In short, choose the right people, set the perimeter and give them freedom.

Q4.  Which was the hardest decision you’ve ever made as a leader. How did you decide which course of action was best?

Sunil: For me, decisions are not hard (or simple), it’s the ambiguity of thoughts that makes a decision difficult. I have always been clear with my ethics and values. They have been my most trusted advisors when it comes to making decisions, big or small. My value system is my compass, pointing to what’s right and what isn’t. Everything else is negotiable. 

Q5. How difficult was it to lead the organisation during the outbreak of coronavirus? What measures you as a leader have taken to ensure smooth functioning of the business.

Sunil: Our priorities were clear from the very beginning. Well-being of our people and their families first and everything else would be secondary. Well-being meant physical as well as emotional well-being. 

All our efforts were directed towards providing our people and their families with mental, medical, financial and professional assistance as the case maybe. We offered Employee Assistance Program to provide mental and psychological support , COVID expense reimbursement and additional financial support, office equipment and connectivity reimbursements to name a few. I personally spoke to many of our clients and apprised them of the situation. We had a dedicated COVID helpdesk to assist people with resources and other covid related amenities.

While the leadership was taking care of the people, people were taking care of the business. In spite of 1/3rd of our workforce being impacted over the last one year, we did not have a single business alert.

I am very proud to say that our people demonstrated care and empathy. They stepped up and filled in for their colleagues wherever we fell short of hands.

“The world is how we shape it” is our belief and at Sopra Steria we shape it around our people and then our business .

Q6. One question you think I should have asked you. Please mention and answer as well. 

Sunil:

One question that I keep asking myself “What next“?

I don’t have the answer to it every time but sooner or later I figure it out . 


Sunil Goyal is currently Dy.Chief Executive Officer of Sopra Steria India. He is responsible for all functions including software delivery, HR, IT, Finance, and administration. Sopra Steria has centres in Noida, Chennai, Pune and Bangalore, with an employee strength of 6000 People.His Passion has always been People. He has been instrumental in setting up a highly performance driven culture at the centre.

Interview with Tom Mellor

There is no denial to the fact that ‘Change’ has become the need of hour in current times, be it individuals or organisations. In this edition of interview series, we feature Tom Mellor (CST, Agility Coach & Consultant) to share his experience and thoughts on recognising the need to change and essential attributes of Agile Leadership.

Let’s read;

Q1. How can an organisation recognise the need to change?

Tom:  This is a topic related to Organisational Behaviour and it has been studied and analysed ad nauseum.  A search for “organisation change” on Google Scholar results in excess of 5,500,000 returns. The first one returned to me is instructive: a pdf that is Peter Vaill’s June 2000 foreword to the book Facilitating Organization Change Lessons from Complexity Science by Edwin E. Olson and Glenda H. Eoyang. He writes: “This book is a kind of conceptual call to arms for thinking about organisation change. Quite properly it is full of specific “best practices” in complex adaptive systems that managers and consultants can use to do what the authors advocate. But even more importantly in my view, Olson and Eoyang introduce us to some new ‘best theories’ that are going to be shaping our thinking about human organisations for quite some time to come.” And, thus, the connection of org change and complexity was hatched. 
Complexity science and org change now go hand-in-hand.  We know that organizations have many of the attributes associated with complex social systems and complex biological systems. Those systems are rarely in a static state for very long, whether admitted by people or not. Dave Snowden has undertaken much research and study about these concepts and formulated his Cynefin Sense-making Framework around his work to be used by orgs and people for analysis and action. Modern organisational leadership that intends for a company to survive over the long term readily understands complexity. If they probe and respond appropriately to the catalysts driving change, they can sense what to do. They must not rely solely on prediction, but operate from hypothesis and experimentation. That is the essence of this recent writing by Snowden on org change.

Q2. According to your experience, why do people resist change? 

Tom:  People don’t resist change unless it is perceived as threatening or coercive. “What’s in it for me” and “what happens to me” are the 2 most poignant questions they have, understandably. If people sense that their leadership doesn’t actually support change, most of them won’t either. Benjamin Hooks, the American Civil Rights leader, said “If you are a leader and you turn around and see no one is following you, then you are just taking a walk.”  When you advocate, insist upon and lead change you better make sure people are following you.

Q3. Why do you call Agile and Scrum – The “Moneyball” of Software Development?

Tom: If you watch the movie or read the book by that title (I have done both) you will understand how Billy Beane, the General Manager of the Oakland A’s professional baseball club, was an impetus for major change in American professional baseball.  It was very meaningful to me since I was in professional baseball for 10 years and had met Beane when he was a player in the Oakland A’s organization.  

We shared similar experiences in trying to foment change in very traditional industries – him in organised baseball and me in a very large insurance company.  We were both seen as outrageous mavericks and revolutionaries by people in our organisations (and described by a host of other adjectives that I cannot mention here). 

I encourage anyone to read the book or watch the movie, even if they are not baseball fans.  This is my second favorite scene in the movie. Brad Pitt plays Billy Beane. My first favorite scene is too profane for most people. This is another.  Beane built off the work of statistician Bill James who had no direct experience in pro baseball, and I built off the work of 17 people who wrote the Manifesto for Agile Software Development.

Q4. How can one be a provider of solutions?

Tom: No one should be a provider of solutions – they should be catalysts for solutions. People should be providers of ideas, concepts, dreams, visions, and ideals. Solutions best come from those closest to the problem and closest to the work. I’ve seen literally millions and millions of dollars spent on “solution” experts brought in from the outside to “fix things”. They prescribe solutions, then they leave and nothing is fixed, and the company treasury is poorer for it.  Then, in a total act of insanity, they are brought back in again to fix the very things they actually messed up – for even more money!!  

If we ran our lives like that, we would be in institutions!  I won’t mention names, but many or most of us know of these consultancies. I’ve seen the same thing from so-called “agile coaches”, though I have also seen very good and courageous ones, too.  People inside the organizations are the greatest pool of help.  They solve problems every day. They are also often ignored in favor of “experts”.  It’s a damn shame, really.

Q.5 Do you believe that transformation starts with Agile leadership?

Tom: Harvard Business Review regularly has articles and case studies about organizational change and the various facets of it.  They had an excellent one titled 5 Behaviors of Leaders Who Embrace Change on May 18, 2018 by Edith Onderick-Harvey.  The five behaviors are:  1) Share a compelling, clear purpose; 2) Seek out what’s not working; 3) Promote calculated risk-taking and experimentation; 4) Look for boundary-spanning partnerships; and 5) Look ahead and see opportunities.

Recognizing the need for change isn’t really the problem.  The problem is the failure to acknowledge the need for change or to subsequently act effectively on that need.  If the organization is a “generative-learning” one, the need (desire??) for change will be apparent as part of its learning process. The catalyst for transformation always starts at the top. This in #1 in the HBR article: sharing a compelling, clear purpose (or vision, if you prefer.)  If you want to see this action, watch this video that I show in my classes: The Transformation of Hill Country Hospital

Q6. What are the seven essential attributes of Agile leadership?

Tom:  Wrong question! Well, that’s pretty blunt :). There is no such thing. What I mean is that there is “effective leadership”.  “Effective” is the appropriate descriptor. If you put “agile” or “Agile” in front, you immediately do two things.  First, you put a modifier that remains largely undefined and innocuous. People widely understand and appreciate what “effective” (and conversely, “ineffective”) means. “Agile” remains elusive, debated, and also, at its worst, bellicose. 

Companies are agile, not people. People’s behaviors can affect a company’s state of being agile, but it transcends behavior to include org structure, culture, and processes.  If we had to capitulate to using the term “agile leadership” (I prefer “modern era leadership” ahd I don’t capitalize the word “agile” because it is not a proper noun), then we might turn to Stephen Denning in his March 14, 2021 Forbes article: How New Leadership Succeeds In The Digital Age

In another Forbes article, The Three Ingredients of Leadership You Need, Denning offers the following graphic. He reveals no secrets that are not widely understood and appreciated. Smart leaders already do the things he describes, regardless of their industry.

Q7. Where do you see the Agile community heading towards?

Tom: It will inspect and adapt, anticipate and innovate, and it will move on in the name of continuous improvement.  Or, it will die.


Tom Mellor has a leadership, teaching, and coaching background in business and IT and he is a Certified Scrum Trainer. He serves as a Scrum practitioner, teacher, coach, helper, and mentor. He tries to help people and organisations be more agile, more effective and efficient, and learn how to quickly deliver quality products that satisfy users and customers.

As a 20+ year employee of a Fortune 50 US business, he introduced agility and Scrum into the company and helped incubate and grow agility there until leaving. He was involved in over 50 product development efforts as a Scrum Master and Team Member, and taught over 1,000 company people about agility and Scrum.